TOPIC: Black and white admin decision

Note, the admin in question was me.

Life lesson, don't buy companies blindly! - it's easier read the rules page and respect them (2349 characters against 4563 on the original post)

Andrew K. called 6 times an admin - I wasn't online the first 5 - so the issue was well known of the people ingame. In those 2 hours and something, situation could and should be fixed.
TurboTukker, because you bought a company violating the rules (read sentence above) maybe you consider the reset was harsh but try to place yourself on the shoes of the player from who the goods were being stolen by the mentioned time! Gives a different perspective, right?!
After I saw your company actively building, I tried, twice, via PM, to get your attention. The fact that you were aware of the situation (even knew where the goods was trying to be delivered) and similar behaviour (stations to steal goods) were in other places, I decided for the reset of the 2 companies that were stealing.

This thread could be made by another player complaining that someone was stealing his goods. And he was on the right todo so! TurboTukker, you can argue that was an hard decision (the reset) and it's not totally unsubstantiated, since you bought a company breaking the server rules, on an issue KNOWN for couple hours!
Saying that the stealing wasn't even "tickling" other player profits, because of ratings, as a reason to keep them, it's invalid. You knew the rule breaks and their locations!

You and others can, possibly, disagree with my decision. But I'm in peace on my mind! It was a reset, not a ban so, if your your company was respecting server rules, you can continue that path but be VERY carefull when buying other companies - they can be breaking the rules and those violations will incorporate your company (and not exclusively rule #4).

Greetings ST2,
yes I learned the life lesson of not buying a company apparantly. At least not when you're the admin of the server it seems.
And yes I still consider the reset overly harsh. The situation was not in my company for 2 hours, but at most for 10 to 15 minutes in my company. I didn't have any clue that the situation was still actively leeching, until being urged to the formula I had the idea that it wouldn't do a thing.
Furthermore if I place myself on the shoes of the players whose goods were stolen then no it doesn't at all give a different perspective. I would not want anyone's big network to be destroyed over such a minor thing, because what is a few clicks to reset for you might be a few hours work for someone else. I'd want you to resort to such measures when the other player was being an ass constantly rebuilding leech stations and so on. Basically follow the admin rules Hawky gave.
So no there is no different perspective, but it may dazzle you that some people just want to have fun and wish for others to have fun as well. I do at least.
You state the issue was KNOWN for a couple of hours, assuming it was known by me is an easy assumption, but I at no point acknowledged this. I didn't know a thing.
Furthermore the ratings discussion is a bit separate from this really, I had no clue that it worked that way and only looked it up when the message came.

You state that it was a reset and not a ban, as if you did me a huge favour there. Whereas by Hawky's rules I would've had the station destroyed and a sign to clear up the rule break. Under your supervision I got a full company reset. That is a difference between day and night for me. Furthermore your company reset might as well have been a ban of a few days, with the little gaming days I have the reset is to me the same.

Like I tried to state before, maybe you do not realize this, but the 10 seconds of clicking you do to reset destroys hours of work I put into a network. All I ask is to maybe, just maybe consider that before just resetting every rulesbreaker you see. Your post however gives the impression of you not considering this at all and just doing it all again when faced with a similar situation.

You might not give a rat's ass, but as is I'm not going to join a BTPRO server while I face a possible full company reset over, in my eyes, a minor thing.

@TurboTukker

I may be known as the harshest admin around (now ^^) but I talk to players and most of the times join theirs companies to fix the rule breaks - Both are known facts!

When I became online the admin calls popped on my IRC, I entered the game and the results are what you know!
Sadly you only registered into our community to complain. Would be great if you look at the big picture and not only "you cleared my 2 hours of game". But now I understand why you didn't answered my PM's because you didn't even spotted all the admin calls the other player was doing, signs, etc (as you say, after I saw your company actively building - and you were the only one on the company). I've reset 2 companies for the same reason and funny that ONLY after reset you looked at it, without tracks, but you KNEW were was! It's was other players 3+ hours of game I protected... because they were FULLY respecting server rules! I would had "only" removed the stations if were only in 1 place.

After that, you were kicked too, once, of the game... you can mention that too, no shame on it... at least speaking for me!

To finish, since YOUR company respect our server rules, you won't have problems and are always welcome

Note: I'll remind the "minor thing" when someone startes stealing your secondary productions ^^

@ST2

Your reputation of the harshest admin around is indeed well deserve from my experience.
And yes I only registered to complain. Possibly this is an indication that this thing is something that bothers me greatly. You state 2 hours, but it was 3 hours and of course the added afternoon/evening of continueing the game which I didn't do now. For me it was the day of gaming OpenTTD ruined.
I honestly saw no notifications in the chat, not a single thing. It may indeed be my fault that I didn't read any of that, but I see no rule obliging me to closely monitor chat. Also looking back in the console I saw nothing of the kind so it wasn't overly obvious.
You say funny that only after the reset you looked at it. Yes of course I did? I was oblivious to the fact that I was actively breaking rules, I leave the game and come back to an empty game. Naturally I enquire then what the hell is going on.
You state that you protect the other players 3+ hours of game. You state this as if a game is totally ruined if someone leeches 10 % of your secondary goods, I find that a harsh overstatement. What isn't a harsh overstatement is that my entire 3 hours of gameplay was nullified and gone, including future hours I was planning. This is in my eyes not even near to “an eye for an eye” with the scale going heavily in my disadvantage.
You say that if it was in 1 place you would've only removed the stations. Please enlighten me in what other place I was doing this grave offense? It sounds greatly like you confused my company with another. I am positive that no other train of me was leeching since the company I bought had only 1 train. The only leeching possibility was a road vehicle? I didn't check that.

All in all I remain on the standpoint that the rulebreaking in no way justified a reset even remotely. This may be hard for you to comprehend, but your 10 seconds of resetting is possibly hours of work. I would personally reserve a reset for the gravest of obvious trolls or minute rulebreakers that have nothing anyhow. Certainly not for a huge network with one minor rulebreak that you have no way of knowing if it's intentional or not.

And yes after the game I was kicked once. I already mentioned that I have no shame of it. You ruined my game and thereby a large part of my time that day which naturally makes me rather angry. Especially so since it was in my eyes not even remotely justified. In that emotional state I called you something along the lines of obnoxious idiot or what not. Not very decent, but certainly no grave offense, but you feel the need to stress it more.

Either way, thanks for the welcome, but I'm not joining a server you admin with this attitude. I may make a mistake someplace and not read the chat, these things happen. I don't want to come back to another reset company over some minor mistake.

In the remote chance that I will at some point decided to come back on this and join anyhow then please do remind me of the minor thing. I would never want anyone's network reset over a minor thing like this, not even my major concurrent. Heck if I were blue I would've also objected against the treatment you gave me, cause like I said I just want myself and everyone to have fun. An attitude you don't seem to share.

@TurboTukker: we're not kids here! You're free to complain on my "Black and white admin decision" and I guess you've never been on the side of the player that so many times asked for help.
I'm not a fan of the “an eye for an eye” policy - "Blind people" can't play OpenTTD!!
Despite the ideal is to keep everyone happy enjoying the games, personally, I prefer to reset 2 companies for rulebreakings keeping happy the ones fully respecting rules, with the feeling that someone look at the servers and keeps fair games!

It was a harsh decision at the time, YES! After reading your statements, do I regret? NO!

Edit: You're free to play wherever you want and makes you feel the game is fair!

@ST2

we're not kids here!

No idea where this statement came from, I’ll ignore it for now.

You're free to complain on my "Black and white admin decision" and I guess you've never been on the side of the player that so many times asked for help.

You’re right I haven’t and for this I wouldn’t have even called an admin thinking no resources were being leeched. Knowing they are now I might’ve sent a request to remove the station but would certainly object against you destroying someone’s network over it.

I'm not a fan of the “an eye for an eye” policy - "Blind people" can't play OpenTTD!!

That’s all funny, but I prefer the eye for an eye policy over yours. Let the blue player put a useless leeching station on my secondary station. Or heck join my company and give all my money (most likely grossly overcompensating his losses since I had a huge network and losses were minimal) to the other guy. Those things would’ve been an eye for an eye! What you did is roughly this:

You’re the judge and someone missing an eye comes in with a picture of someone poking in his eye. He wishes for the eye poker to be punished. From the picture you can’t really judge if it’s intentional or not, but the offender is obvious. You as the judge state that this is indeed illegal and you will contact the offender for him to be punished! You try and call him for a week, but never in that entire week do you reach him. You then decide that it’s fairest for all to just be safe and chop off the offenders head. You instantly do so and tell the eye missing person to live happily ever after.

I don’t see how anyone can find a policy like that fair at all.

Despite the ideal is to keep everyone happy enjoying the games, personally, I prefer to reset 2 companies for rulebreakings keeping happy the ones fully respecting rules, with the feeling that someone look at the servers and keeps fair games!

You contradict yourself heavily here. Your ideal is to keep everyone happy enjoying the games. Was I not everyone?! Would the blue player have enjoyed his game less if you’d just destroyed the line? There was an obvious opportunity to keep more people happy, but you chose to prefer the one’s that didn’t make a mistake and butchered the one making a mistake for it. Had I constantly deliberately broken the rules or harassed someone or what not I would’ve been fine with that, but in this case the reaction is in my opinion just way out of line.

It was a harsh decision at the time, YES! After reading your statements, do I regret? NO!

And exactly that is why I will not join BTPRO servers again, so thanks for once again clarifying that. I’d happily live by the rules Hawky gives, but for some bizarre reason you feel the need to be “the harshest admin”. There is already a thread from 3 months ago with people stating you’re a power tripping admin, often overreacting. Do you really not think that maybe, just maybe there is some improvement through self-reflection to be had? Maybe being the harshest admin is not something to be proud of? Try and be the nicest admin around and actually be there for EVERYONE to enjoy the game?